Athenians v Spartans

[Keraunos]

How did the battle of the Spartans vs Athenians that I flagged up earlier pan out?

Well, after getting rocked back on their heels to start with, the Spartiates on the right of the line managed to disorder the Athenian allies facing them while their few surviving peltasts behaved heroically in holding off hordes (well, little ones at any rate) of horse archers and javelin armed cavalry.  Although there was a big hole at the other end of the Spartan line, it looked like the Spartiates would sweep through at their end and then settle the hash of the rest of the Athenian line.

But, it didn't happen.  Time and again the Spartiates activated and either failed to land their blows or the Athenian allies saved.  For their part, the Athenian side was failing to make any headway with their light troops on the Spartan right - where they had a 3:1 advantage - while seeing the Spartan allies light units chew up the Athenian hoplites who had broken through the line on the first clash.  Gradually the units in the centre on both sides became disordered but neither side could land a killing blow.

Suddenly the ground shifted on both flanks.  The Spartiates finally broke their opponents, as did the Perioikoi holding position next to them, while at the other end, the Athenians broke the stubborn resistance of the last allied hoplite unit on the Spartan left wing.  Who could get across to the centre quickly enough to tip the balance?

The race went to the Athenians.  The Perioikoi managed to get across but couldn't manage an activation to charge into the Athenian flank, allowing a last chance to the Athenians, which they took successfully, securing the last of the Spartan victory medals while still holding four of their own.

The game certainly ran quickly and smoothly.  It is similar to 'Strength & Honour' in the way units move around but the combat mechanics differ.  In particular, the effect of flanking in the latter ruleset is devastating but under TTS it seems simply to add an extra front to the fighting without the flanking unit getting any advantage in the combat due to its position.  Mind you, given that a unit can activate several times in the course of a turn, trying to get a hit each time, this may be powerful enough.  It just felt a bit different to what we've been used to.  In the middle of the game tension built up over several turns as both sides experienced failures to activate wings, or having lots of activations and failing to land a solid blow.  I can see it being a fun club game with several players on each side, which the mechanics would seem to allow for very easily.

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Athenians advance, pushing forward their cavalry in the foreground

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The Spartan cavalry in the foreground disappear

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Heavy going in the centre

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A Spartan unit in the centre is broken before the Perioikoi can hit the Athenian flank, handing victory to those wretched arty types.

[simonw]

Good stuff!

[Keraunos]

Apologies for posting this on your battle report thread - also good stuff.  I should have opened a new topic.

[Erpingham]

There you go - sorry for the bland title

[Keraunos]

Thank you.

[simonw]

No worries! I bought a couple of sets of half-scale playing cards for 'To the Strongest' so they don't take up as much space (a quarter of the area).
Cheers
Simon

[Keraunos]

I think I might invest in making up some tokens for activation but keep cards for the cut and thrust of combat.  I'm sorely tempted by the lovely replica ancient coins that Simon Miller sells from his website as Victory Medals.  David Brown was using them in his game at last year's SoA convention and they looked so much better than the plastic poker chips I've used.

Rereading the article in the latest slingshot and then going back over the rules this morning, I realized we went through the entire game yesterday doing combat wrong!  I'd completely overlooked that the defender hits back after the attacker has had a whack.  I need a new brain rather than a new pair of glasses, I think.

[Jon Freitag]

TtS! always produces fast and furious action.  Card draws can wreck the best laid plans.

[dwkay57]

Where did the Greek horse archers come from? I've seen information that indicated that the Athenians had some foot archers but not come across any suggestions that any state put them on horses.

[Keraunos]

Where did the Greek horse archers come from? I've seen information that indicated that the Athenians had some foot archers but not come across any suggestions that any state put them on horses.

The short answer is that they came out of my box of Persian cavalry because I don't have enough Greek light cavalry yet.  The long answer is that I have a niggling memory that the Athenians did have some horse archers but I can't remember what source I might have for this - discounting imaginary army lists that go with some rule sets.

[Erpingham]

Where did the Greek horse archers come from?

Mounted Scythian mercenaries?  I recall from way back the Athenians had Scythian "police" archers.

[Duncan Head]

Where did the Greek horse archers come from? I've seen information that indicated that the Athenians had some foot archers but not come across any suggestions that any state put them on horses.

Only Athens is recorded as having any:

Pericles also showed them that they had twelve hundred horse including mounted archers, with sixteen hundred archers unmounted

We have a thread discussing them at https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=1334.0

[Keraunos]

In 'Cavalry and the Character of Classical Warfare' p.191, Roel Konijnendijk refers to the Athenians fielding 1,000 cavalry and 200 horse archers through the use of subsidies.

[dwkay57]

Yes looking back the WRG lists (1981) does include 10 Athenian mercenary horse archers which must refer to the 200 referred to by Konijnendijk.

But the "only figures available" is much more historically accurate reason

[Imperial Dave]

TtS! always produces fast and furious action.  Card draws can wreck the best laid plans.

too much so or just about right in terms of frequency and effect...?