Sardinians in the Second Punic War

[Jim Webster]

I suspect the 'double legion' was just the usual pairing of Roman and Allied.
Campaigning in Sardinia normally took a full consular army, so a garrison of ten thousand men was probably fair enough give the island's importance as a source of grain and silver

[Jim Webster]

Musing about the 'Sardi-Pelliti' or the 'wild hillmen with their short swords, light shields and hide cuirasses. Not so much what they looked like but how they fought.
The tribes were divided into three main groups. Apparently the Corsican tribes (some of whom lived in Northern Sardinia) were of Ligurian ancestry. Further south the second group was known as the Balares whilst the third, southern group, were the Iliensi.
My current thought is that they'll be similar to Spanish in combat, as opposed to Gauls. In DBx terms, more Auxilia that warband.
But I've found damn all describing them in combat

[Dave Knight]

In DBx terms, more Auxilia that warband.

Who cares about DBx terms Jim, what matters is how to model them in Ionia to Carthage terms

[DBS]

But I've found damn all describing them in combat

I should be delighted to be proved wrong, but I fear there is nothing to be found.  Strabo is pretty much our only "early" extant source, and whilst he describes a warrior's kit, that is all.  Given by Strabo's time the island had supposedly been pacified for the best part of two centuries, I wonder if his description is at all contemporary; perhaps it was derived from earlier, lost, sources.  The problem is that Strabo is rarely interested in the mechanics of different ethnicities' combat, as opposed to their physical appearance and dress, and supposed ethnic origins, so even if he had a source describing their actual preferred style of combat, he might not have thought it worthy of repetition - bunch of blokes living in the hills fight like a lot of other blokes living in the hills...  not as interesting or unique as their liking for mouflon cuirasses...

[Jim Webster]

In DBx terms, more Auxilia that warband.

Who cares about DBx terms Jim, what matters is how to model them in Ionia to Carthage terms

Well more people know DBx but here goes

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The 'Gallic Sardi-Pelliti' are the ones who do the wild charge. The alternative are those who are more ordered and steady.
They are average equipment because of their fashionable mouflon cuirasses and shields etc. These are the top of the range, a fair proportion would be poor equipment. Depends how much kit their heroic allies can supply 

[Jim Webster]

But I've found damn all describing them in combat

I should be delighted to be proved wrong, but I fear there is nothing to be found.  Strabo is pretty much our only "early" extant source, and whilst he describes a warrior's kit, that is all.  Given by Strabo's time the island had supposedly been pacified for the best part of two centuries, I wonder if his description is at all contemporary; perhaps it was derived from earlier, lost, sources.  The problem is that Strabo is rarely interested in the mechanics of different ethnicities' combat, as opposed to their physical appearance and dress, and supposed ethnic origins, so even if he had a source describing their actual preferred style of combat, he might not have thought it worthy of repetition - bunch of blokes living in the hills fight like a lot of other blokes living in the hills...  not as interesting or unique as their liking for mouflon cuirasses...

Yes I tend to thinking of them as avoiding Gallic cliches 
(Actually I suspect a lot of Gallic infantry avoided them as well. With some of Caesar's accounts you begin to wonder if actually the Romans were the warband 

[Aetius-last-of-the-Romans]

Musing about the 'Sardi-Pelliti' or the 'wild hillmen with their short swords, light shields and hide cuirasses. Not so much what they looked like but how they fought.

Possibly slightly off the edges of a true academic discussion - but there is (as I understand it) one train of thought that the mustachioed, paler skinned, horn-helmeted and cuirass wearing 'Sherden' swordsmen, that appear in New Kingdom Egyptian reliefs, either as part of the 'Sea People's migration or subsequently as elite Guardsmen in Egyptian armies might (and I stress might), have originated in Sardinia. There are similar small bronze votive figures of horn-helmeted, sword-wielding figures carrying large domed, animal hide, multi-bossed shields that have been found in Sardinia. The British Museum has a couple of nice examples on display.
Is it a possibility that the goat-skinned cuirasses could be similar to those depicted on the Egyptian reliefs (and maybe the shields)? Just a thought.

I also read somewhere (need to trawl my memory as to where) that the Balearic Isles, Corsica and Sardinia (also Lusitania) all produced a mostly black wool - maybe again from the aforementioned 'rams'. So maybe our Sardinian troops in the Punic Wars, would be dressed in black woolen (Iberian style) tunics, with round domed multi-bossed shields, a significantly sized sword, and a brace of javelin. With maybe some of them in a goat-skin cuirass - minus the hair - possibly like the ones the Egyptian Sherden are wearing (all purely hypothetically of course).

There is also a traditional Sardinian folk practice, particularly in Mamoiada, involving participants dressed in dark goat/sheep skins and large cowbells. This is the 'Mamuthones and Issohadores' parade during the annual carnival, usually held in January (around the time of the feast of St.Anthony). This ancient, mysterious ritual often involves 12 Mamuthones wearing black skins (mastruca) and black-masks, and 30kg of bells to represent animals or dark forces being tamed by the white-masked Issohadores, in white skins, with white masks. These practices are believed to have prehistoric (Nuragic) or Dionysian roots, designed as propitiatory rituals for agriculture and farming, a bit like the Celtic Beltane rites.

Cheers
Mark

[Jim Webster]

I agree that the use of "a light shield (pelte) and a small dagger (xiphidio)" doesn't sound a long way from  the 'Sherden' (Horned helmets a bonus) or the Nuragic artefacts found.
Swords may have evolved to a shorter form over the centuries.
The black wool, the Mamuthones and Issohadores are intriguing.
Instinctively I googled traditional Sardinian sheep breeds and the native sheep is the Sarda, and is white. But there is also the Nera di Arbus which is very similar to the Sarda but is entirely black! Intriguingly it is found mainly on the fertile Campidano and in the south and west. Which would in this period be the Sardo-Punic part. Obviously it could have been more wide spread, but sheep breeds tend to be conservative 

When looking at goats, the Sarda Primitaiva is a traditional breed indigenous to Sardinia. According to Wiki "The coat may be black (eumelanic), white, roan grey or red (phaeomelanic), or be bi-coloured or tri-coloured, all with or without other patches of colour or 'wild-type' markings such as a dark dorsal stripe or dark stripes on the face."
In reality the pictures I have found show a lot of flocks are black

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[Adrian Nayler]

The 'Giants of Monte Prama'

I'm not sure how much this will help Jim, but you may find it interesting nonetheless.

In 2012 I visited the Cultural Assets Restoration Centre of Sassari. They were restoring the huge sculptures found at Monte Prama (Nuoro) dating from the 8th Century BCE. As well as models of Nuraghic towers, the statues comprise three types: six 'warriors', six 'archers' and sixteen 'boxers'. They appear to be clad and equipped similarly to earlier Nuraghic bronzetti sculptures. Though plainly of the same culture, but of post-Bronze Age date, I thought there were differences. The warriors carry round shields, the archers bows and quivers, whilst the boxers carry what in an Italian context would be described as a scutum (above their heads). I don't know why they are described as 'boxers' as their pose doesn't suggest it, at least to me. Photo 4 shows the chest of a warrior who appears to be wearing some form of thick, ribbed or padded garment. Or perhaps it's just a shaggy goat story?

[Adrian Nayler]

Four more snaps ...

[Jim Webster]

Thanks for that Adrian, absolutely fascinating.

I pondered this statue and make these suggestions

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Just guessing he's wearing a leather/fabric version of the bronze heart protector or the single disk breast plate as seen here

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The shields are also interesting. Still the round shield, but also something that does look, as you say, awfully like a Scutum.

[Duncan Head]

Comparisons between the Monte Prama figures and the Capestrano warrior have already been made - here for instance.

That 2017 article doesn't mention the round shields, only the scutum-alikes; the Wikipedia article suggests that the round shielded warriors were not immediately identified.

[Jim Webster]

So on one hand, the Monte Prama statues are a fair bit earlier than the 3rd century BC. But on the other hand they do seem to link them with a vague 'Italian' tradition

Given that Cagliari on Sardinia is about 370 miles from Naples, 340 miles from Marseille and 340 miles from the Balearic islands it's possible to expect influence from them all  .

But once it was settled, it's only 180 miles from Carthage