Camels and Horses

[Mark G]

Given rules still model cavalry fencing on horseback on a static position, I think we shouldn't neglect the seeming inability of a horseman to reach the camel rider,whilst his head is in range to the camel rider

[Erpingham]

I think we shouldn't neglect the seeming inability of a horseman to reach the camel rider,whilst his head is in range to the camel rider

We could also note that, unlike a lot of ancient and medieval cavalry, he seems to have gone into battle without a long pointy stick to give him more reach.

[Andreas Johansson]

So who comes a cropper later?

Leo the Wise claims that the Byzantines have "often" come to grief due to unaccustomed horses being spooked by camels, but provides no explicit examples.

The only post-Cyrus examples of camels spooking horses in battle in our period that anyone has brought up in previous threads are the two in Procopius, Moors against Byzantines at Mammes and against Vandals in an earlier battle, though these, as mentioned above, involve camels used as static obstacles rather than camelry proper.

The Byzantines at Mammes were recent arrivals from Constantinople, but one might have thought the Vandals, who'd been living in Africa for generations by then, would have had horses accustomed to camels, which is part of why I suspect that the camel-ness of the obstacles was of secondary importance.

So as far as historical matchups are concerned, there seems to be little call for a bonus for camelry against unaccustomed horses other than as a scenario rule for Cyrus v. Croesus.

(Oh, and I see that I cited the Leo passage as Taktika 19§134 in a previous thread. The correct citation is 18§134.)

[stevenneate]

But he did bring down both camel and rider with one shot. Bold action sir!

In other words, the bounder shot the camel, not the rider...  they should have fined him a crate in the Mess for that!

I just ask myself, what would Harry Flashman have done? Seems that Lieutenant Stourton accidentally chose the correct option.  Flashy would have heartily approved.

[DavidMcCann]

The classic discussion of camels is Major Leonard's book, The Camel, its uses and management (1894) You can get a copy from https://archive.org/download/camelitsusesand00leongoog/camelitsusesand00leongoog.pdf

He remarks that "... horses that have never seen or never been brought into contact with camels show a distinct dislike ... Of course they can be very soon broken of this habit ..." and compares a horse's reaction to that at its first sight of a train, tram, or bicycle.

[Swampster]

But he did bring down both camel and rider with one shot. Bold action sir!

In other words, the bounder shot the camel, not the rider...  they should have fined him a crate in the Mess for that!

I just ask myself, what would Harry Flashman have done? Seems that Lieutenant Stourton accidentally chose the correct option.  Flashy would have heartily approved.

Going by the comments about the inaccuracy of the revolver, he may have been aiming for the man and hit the beast.
At least he was a good enough swordsmen to have had a go with it - in the ACW the troopers were supposed to have been more likely to trim their own mount's ears than to hit the enemy.

[Jim Webster]

But he did bring down both camel and rider with one shot. Bold action sir!

In other words, the bounder shot the camel, not the rider...  they should have fined him a crate in the Mess for that!

I just ask myself, what would Harry Flashman have done? Seems that Lieutenant Stourton accidentally chose the correct option.  Flashy would have heartily approved.

Going by the comments about the inaccuracy of the revolver, he may have been aiming for the man and hit the beast.
At least he was a good enough swordsmen to have had a go with it - in the ACW the troopers were supposed to have been more likely to trim their own mount's ears than to hit the enemy.

Mind you Lawrence admitted to shooting his own camel in the back of the head with his pistol when in a melee   

[Erpingham]

Though not involving camels, it is worth reading Churchill's account of his exploits at Omdurman (well, one of them - I think he wrote three). In this battle, because of a weak shoulder, he fought armed with a Mauser automatic, defending his horse much more effectively than his lance armed troopers could.