SoA Forum

History => Ancient and Medieval History => Topic started by: martin on Jun 01, 2022, 11:40 AM

Title: Crusader pilgrims cross on back or cross on front?
Post by: martin on Jun 01, 2022, 11:40 AM
Question : Where did Pilgrims of the first crusade wear the cross ?.

Robert the Monk ,says on the right arm and between the shoulders ? Anna Comnena also mentions between the shoulders ,but is that correct ?

Bit of an obscure one but this is the place to ask I think.
This might affect our games but possibly not?


thank you

martin
Title: Re: Crusader pilgrims cross on back or cross on front?
Post by: Duncan Head on Jun 01, 2022, 12:05 PM
"The crusader wore a cross of cloth upon his breast on his way to the Holy Land; upon his return after fulfilling his vow he bore the cross upon his back between the shoulders" (https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:The_history_of_medieval_Europe.djvu/359) - seen this idea before, but I have no idea if there is any original source behind it.
Title: Re: Crusader pilgrims cross on back or cross on front?
Post by: Erpingham on Jun 01, 2022, 12:06 PM
Well, we have this well-known sculpture from slightly later which also suggest centre of the chest as an option.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7d/Mus%C3%A9e_lorrain_-_Le_ertour_du_crois%C3%A8.JPG/1200px-Mus%C3%A9e_lorrain_-_Le_ertour_du_crois%C3%A8.JPG)

Add : picking up from Duncan, this shows a returned crusader.  But then a cross wouldn't be apparent on his back, under his cloak.
Title: Re: Crusader pilgrims cross on back or cross on front?
Post by: DougM on Jun 02, 2022, 06:54 AM
Would it be fanciful to think that on the way to Jerusalem the Cross would be on the front as 'before them' and having been there, on the back to show they were leaving it behind them. Makes iconographic sense I suppose.
Title: Re: Crusader pilgrims cross on back or cross on front?
Post by: martin on Jun 02, 2022, 07:45 AM
Job done

Thank you for being a free online instant solution chaps! (FOIS?)

martin :)
Title: Re: Crusader pilgrims cross on back or cross on front?
Post by: DBS on Jun 02, 2022, 09:12 PM
Quote from: Duncan Head on Jun 01, 2022, 12:05 PM
"The crusader wore a cross of cloth upon his breast on his way to the Holy Land; upon his return after fulfilling his vow he bore the cross upon his back between the shoulders" (https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:The_history_of_medieval_Europe.djvu/359) - seen this idea before, but I have no idea if there is any original source behind it.

That was Robert the Monk's claim of direction by Urban at Clermont. Of course, if you were a bit of an ostentatious type like Abbot Baldwin, you did not muck around and had the cross branded on your forehead.