SoA Forum

History => Ancient and Medieval History => Topic started by: Duncan Head on Mar 10, 2017, 10:49 AM

Title: Pharaonic colossus found in Heliopolis
Post by: Duncan Head on Mar 10, 2017, 10:49 AM
Possibly Ramses II - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/09/look-on-my-works-ye-mighty-ozymandias-statue-found-in-mud
Title: Re: Pharaonic colossus found in Heliopolis
Post by: Andreas Johansson on Mar 10, 2017, 11:21 AM
'Tis funny that the journalist appears to believe Ramses II conquered Egypt's Asiatic and Nubian territories.
Title: Re: Pharaonic colossus found in Heliopolis
Post by: Imperial Dave on Mar 10, 2017, 04:31 PM
saw this report on another site (although the Guardian one is, as ever, very good!) and it is a very good find indeed, staggering in fact
Title: Re: Pharaonic colossus found in Heliopolis
Post by: Patrick Waterson on Mar 10, 2017, 08:06 PM
Quote from: Andreas Johansson on Mar 10, 2017, 11:21 AM
'Tis funny that the journalist appears to believe Ramses II conquered Egypt's Asiatic and Nubian territories.

"He led several military expeditions and expanded the Egyptian empire to stretch from Syria in the east to Nubia (northern Sudan) in the south."

'Expanded' is indeed perhaps the wrong word.  'Re-established' might be closer, and 'went over pretty much the same old ground as his predecessors' better still. :)
Title: Re: Pharaonic colossus found in Heliopolis
Post by: Tim on Mar 10, 2017, 09:10 PM
I am sure that if one read his version you would find his conquests were greater than those of any other king that had ever lived - to say nothing of the fact that he achieved them single handedly...
Title: Re: Pharaonic colossus found in Heliopolis
Post by: Patrick Waterson on Mar 11, 2017, 09:37 AM
Funnily enough, he is quite honest about his conquests: following the Battle of Kadesh (three years later, to be precise) he is proclaiming his (re-)conquest of Ascalon.

The wretched city (dmy), which his majesty captured, when it
rebelled, Askalon (e-s-k-rw-n') . It (the city) says : "It is joy to be
subject to thee, and delight to cross thy boundaries. Take thou
the heritage, that we may speak of thy valour in all unknown
countries." - Breasted, Ancient Records of Egypt IV.355

A quick look at the map shows how he must have fared in the interim.

Quote from: Tim on Mar 10, 2017, 09:10 PM
- to say nothing of the fact that he achieved them single handedly...

Single-handed achievement does indeed get a generous mention.

Bringing in prisoners before his majesty, being those which
[he] brought off in the victory of his sword in this wretched land of
Kheta, when his majesty caused to be [announced to] his infantry and
his chariotry, saying : "[Behold, these are] the prisoners of my own
capture, while I was alone, no infantry being with me, nor any prince
with me, nor any chariotry." - idem IV.342

Exactly how one takes prisoners while departing the battle at high speed in a chariot remains unmentioned.
Title: Re: Pharaonic colossus found in Heliopolis
Post by: Mark G on Mar 11, 2017, 06:49 PM
Probably in the same way you get Mexico to pay for the wall.

I wonder if Ramses had a comb over?
Title: Re: Pharaonic colossus found in Heliopolis
Post by: Swampster on Mar 16, 2017, 08:02 PM
A name has been found on a fragment so now it is thought to be Psamtek I
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39298218
Title: Re: Pharaonic colossus found in Heliopolis
Post by: Patrick Waterson on Mar 16, 2017, 09:45 PM
Our Egyptian friends may soon be changing their minds yet again.  Psamtek's name looks like this (http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums-static/digitalegypt/chronology/psametiki.html).  The name on the statue looks like this (http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/5A3A/production/_95189032_a09c5eae-a2f7-4a5d-bb7d-3a74f3cc346f.jpg).  Because it is photographed sideways it is hard to make it out exactly, but I think it is Amenmesse (http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums-static/digitalegypt/riqqeh/archive/uc16064.gif).

Undestroyed inscriptions from Amenmesse's reign are very rare.  This is the only one on a statue of which I have knowledge.

What is also revealing is that the artistic style is recognisably 19th Dynasty and at the same time acceptably 26th Dynasty.  One would think they were one and the same. ;)
Title: Re: Pharaonic colossus found in Heliopolis
Post by: Duncan Head on Mar 17, 2017, 09:37 AM
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170317-3000-year-old-statue-recently-found-in-cairo-might-be-psamtik-i-not-ramses-ii-as-previously-thought/ looks like it has better pictures of the name, both the original and a drawing displayed by the Minister.
Title: Re: Pharaonic colossus found in Heliopolis
Post by: Patrick Waterson on Mar 18, 2017, 12:59 AM
Except that is not the name which appeared in the previous photograph (http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/5A3A/production/_95189032_a09c5eae-a2f7-4a5d-bb7d-3a74f3cc346f.jpg).  The freshness of the new name's cut indicates the statue may have been usurped.

I do hope they manage to sort it all out.