SoA Forum

History => Ancient and Medieval History => Topic started by: Duncan Head on Aug 20, 2025, 03:35 PM

Title: Did Welsh cows pull Stonehenge?
Post by: Duncan Head on Aug 20, 2025, 03:35 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/aug/20/cow-tooth-stonehenge-wales-cattle-stones
Title: Re: Did Welsh cows pull Stonehenge?
Post by: Jim Webster on Aug 20, 2025, 08:54 PM
If I'm reading it right then the calf was raised a 125 miles away in Wales and ended up at Stonehenge. My first thought was that it's not a long way for pastoralists to travel to take advantage of summer hill grazing. when you don't have a lot of fences to keep your cattle off your grain crops, then moving them away for a few months isn't a bad idea  8) 
Title: Re: Did Welsh cows pull Stonehenge?
Post by: Ian61 on Aug 20, 2025, 09:30 PM
Quote from: Jim Webster on Aug 20, 2025, 08:54 PMIf I'm reading it right then the calf was raised a 125 miles away in Wales and ended up at Stonehenge. My first thought was that it's not a long way for pastoralists to travel to take advantage of summer hill grazing. when you don't have a lot of fences to keep your cattle off your grain crops, then moving them away for a few months isn't a bad idea  8) 

Fair points, and of course for many centuries until the last we would move cattle, sheep even geese this sort of mileage in foot to market. If there was a big festival on then they would need plenty for the barbeque so there is bartering opportunity. :)
Title: Re: Did Welsh cows pull Stonehenge?
Post by: Imperial Dave on Aug 21, 2025, 04:52 AM
To be fair we still see the odd cow on the m4 today. Obviously a well worn path  :)
Title: Re: Did Welsh cows pull Stonehenge?
Post by: Erpingham on Aug 21, 2025, 09:50 AM
Quote from: Imperial Dave on Aug 21, 2025, 04:52 AMTo be fair we still see the odd cow on the m4 today. Obviously a well worn path  :)
Quote from: Ian61 on Aug 20, 2025, 09:30 PMFair points, and of course for many centuries until the last we would move cattle, sheep even geese this sort of mileage in foot to market.

Indeed, I think I remember tales of Welsh drovers bringing cattle to London in the early modern period.

One problem with the cow theory is we have the remains of a cow in a ritual deposit. This could have been a special cow brought from Wales for sacrifice. It could be a random cow from a herd brought along by Welsh visitors to "bring a cow" party. Both seem more straightforward explanations than the breeding of special draft cows for heavy haulage.
Title: Re: Did Welsh cows pull Stonehenge?
Post by: Denis Grey on Aug 21, 2025, 10:09 AM
Quote from: Erpingham on Aug 21, 2025, 09:50 AMIndeed, I think I remember tales of Welsh drovers bringing cattle to London in the early modern period.
.........


Absolutely, certainly as late as the 19th century and possibly even into the early 20th.  This probably accounts for the name Hendre Road at the top end of the Old Kent Road.

Similarly, just before the Second World War, my father worked with someone who recalled bringing wagon cartloads of hay up to London from Suffolk when he was a lad, sleeping in the hay of the way up and on the bare boards of the wagon on the way back.
Title: Re: Did Welsh cows pull Stonehenge?
Post by: Imperial Dave on Aug 21, 2025, 04:51 PM
There was a tv seies called Drovers Gold a few years back. Quite watchable if somewhat out of our period of interest

Additionally some of the scenes were filmed in my village  :)
Title: Re: Did Welsh cows pull Stonehenge?
Post by: tadamson on Aug 22, 2025, 11:00 AM
Cow jawbone part of ritual at stone henge  =>  oxen pulled stones from Wales  ::)

Compare:

engineer      2+2 = 4
archaeologist 2+2 = 10, maybe
journalist    2+2 = 1,000,000,000 (= good story)

 ;D 
Title: Re: Did Welsh cows pull Stonehenge?
Post by: Imperial Dave on Aug 22, 2025, 01:23 PM
Welshman 2+2 = I knew it!