https://www.medievalists.net/2025/05/lions-middle-ages/
Meow....
And then there is of course the theory that some of the early proto heraldic lions were actually leopards. Cue outraged English footie fans...
Interestingly the wiki comments "The lions passant guardant were historically referred to as leopards, but this refers to their pose rather than species"
They give as a source https://web.archive.org/web/20210603110243/https://www.heraldsnet.org/saitou/parker/Jpglossl.htm#Lion
Lion, (fr. lion): this beast is perhaps the most frequent of all bearings. In early heraldry it is generally represented rampant, while leopards are represented passant guardant, and hence the arms of England, not doubt, are more correctly blazoned, Leopards. Practically, however, the same animal was intended, but different names given according to the position; in later times the name lion was given to both. The chief evidence is that the first entry in one of out earliest rolls of arms runs:--
Le Roy d'Angleterre porte goules, trois lupards d'or--Roll, temp. HEN. III.
Son fitz teile, ovecque ung labell d'azur--Ibid.
And in the early roll of Edward II. the royal arms thus blazoned:--
Le Roy de Engletere porte de goules, iij lupars passauns de or.
I'm still looking for the witch and the wardrobe...
Quote from: Imperial Dave on May 11, 2025, 05:06 PMI'm still looking for the witch and the wardrobe...
She's in the wardrobe hiding from the big cats :o
Big wardrobe :)
Quote from: Jim Webster on May 11, 2025, 04:08 PMPractically, however, the same animal was intended
Perhaps more accurately, the average Norman had no real clue as to difference between a leopard, a species he had never seen, and a lion, a species he had never seen... ;)
Quote from: DBS on May 11, 2025, 07:31 PMQuote from: Jim Webster on May 11, 2025, 04:08 PMPractically, however, the same animal was intended
Perhaps more accurately, the average Norman had no real clue as to difference between a leopard, a species he had never seen, and a lion, a species he had never seen... ;)
I'd bet that the average Norman was not into heraldry, but with the way the men of the North had been getting around there is a fair chance that some of them might have seen lions or leopards in the flesh. And trade in exotic animals was still a thing, though on less of a scale than under dear old Rome. Charlemagne had an elephant ;)
It's dragons you need....
Quote from: Imperial Dave on May 12, 2025, 05:22 AMIt's dragons you need....
Ah, but a lion-dragon or a snake-dragon?
Or a lion-snake-bird-dragon?
A red dragon..... :)