SoA Forum

History => Ancient and Medieval History => Topic started by: Imperial Dave on Dec 13, 2022, 07:05 PM

Title: The Vikings in Africa
Post by: Imperial Dave on Dec 13, 2022, 07:05 PM
https://www.heritagedaily.com/2022/12/the-vikings-in-africa/145505?amp

Hopefully of interest
Title: Re: The Vikings in Africa
Post by: Swampster on Dec 13, 2022, 08:25 PM
Interesting.

The blue men could perhaps have been Tuaregs, though it seems that dark complexion was described as 'blár' which includes blue and black. Seems the same word was used for e.g. ravens.
Title: Re: The Vikings in Africa
Post by: Andreas Johansson on Dec 14, 2022, 06:14 AM
Quote from: Swampster on Dec 13, 2022, 08:25 PM
The blue men could perhaps have been Tuaregs, though it seems that dark complexion was described as 'blár' which includes blue and black. Seems the same word was used for e.g. ravens.
In modern Icelandic the word means black people. I don't think there's any reason to think it meant anything else in the Viking Age.
Title: Re: The Vikings in Africa
Post by: Mick Hession on Dec 14, 2022, 01:32 PM
Quote from: Andreas Johansson on Dec 14, 2022, 06:14 AM
Quote from: Swampster on Dec 13, 2022, 08:25 PM
The blue men could perhaps have been Tuaregs, though it seems that dark complexion was described as 'blár' which includes blue and black. Seems the same word was used for e.g. ravens.
In modern Icelandic the word means black people. I don't think there's any reason to think it meant anything else in the Viking Age.

Also in Irish (medieval as well as modern).
Title: Re: The Vikings in Africa
Post by: Anton on Dec 14, 2022, 03:21 PM
An fir gorm, as Mick said.   I hadn't known about blar.  Interesting stuff.
Title: Re: The Vikings in Africa
Post by: Swampster on Dec 14, 2022, 05:54 PM
I gather that using 'svatr' for people tended to refer to hair colour. Again, I think Irish may be the same.
Title: Re: The Vikings in Africa
Post by: Anton on Dec 14, 2022, 10:02 PM
Yes, dubh would be the word.
Title: Re: The Vikings in Africa
Post by: DougM on Dec 15, 2022, 08:03 AM
Quote from: Anton on Dec 14, 2022, 10:02 PM
Yes, dubh would be the word.

Same in Scots Gaelic- Dubh being dark or black.
Title: Re: The Vikings in Africa
Post by: RichT on Dec 15, 2022, 10:34 AM
Hence Dubh Loch (or indeed Loch Dubh) in Scotland, for north-facing or shaded lakes. No relevance to current discussion, just happy memories of this year's holiday...
Title: Re: The Vikings in Africa
Post by: Imperial Dave on Dec 15, 2022, 12:34 PM
ddu or du in Welsh
Title: Re: The Vikings in Africa
Post by: DBS on Dec 15, 2022, 06:03 PM
I do remember a colleague, who had a diplomatic posting to Morocco, but was also accredited to Mauritania, telling me that the Mauritanians tended to be rather racist towards their Senegalese neighbours to the south, and used an epithet for black which was equivalent in English to the N word.  He observed that if all racism is irrational, then this particular manifestation was especially so, as many of the Mauritanians were in fact of a rather darker hue than their sub-Saharan neighbours...
Title: Re: The Vikings in Africa
Post by: Nick Harbud on Dec 17, 2022, 03:41 PM
Historically, the cognomen 'black' can often refer simply to a swarthy demeanour, hair colour or someone whose character exudes a generally pessimistic view of humanity.  For example, Thomas Butler, 10th Earl of Ormand (Irish: Tomás Dubh de Buitléir), known as 'Black Thomas'.  Judge from his portrait how accurate this might be.

Portrait (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Butler,_10th_Earl_of_Ormond#/media/File:Steven_van_der_Meulen_Thomas_Butler_Earl_of_Ormonde_NGI.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vikings in Africa
Post by: DougM on Dec 17, 2022, 03:46 PM
The Black Douglas is probably the best known example. Ironically the Black, Black Stream/Water.