SoA Forum

History => Ancient and Medieval History => Topic started by: Imperial Dave on Mar 21, 2026, 09:28 AM

Title: Harold sailed to Hastings...
Post by: Imperial Dave on Mar 21, 2026, 09:28 AM
https://www.uea.ac.uk/about/news/article/english-historys-biggest-march-is-a-myth-king-harold-sailed-to-the-battle-of-hastings

It would make sense...
Title: Re: Harold sailed to Hastings...
Post by: Jim Webster on Mar 21, 2026, 10:24 AM
Yes I saw it in the paper and it does make sense
Title: Re: Harold sailed to Hastings...
Post by: Erpingham on Mar 21, 2026, 10:25 AM
This is certainly potentially important and has some plausibility, so be interested to see the full evidence set out. I suspect there are one or two errors in the initial report. Was Harold's army all on foot, for example? His huscarls would probably be mounted, unless they were travelling by ship.  Did he trail loads of local fyrdmen with him to the south? I doubt it - there were more than enough in South East England. So a rapid movement of core troops is more plausible anyway. Interesting idea that the English were short of archers at Hastings because they were all serving with the ships. Not sure we have much information as to the nature and equipment of lithsmen, so don't know what his evidence looks like.
Title: Re: Harold sailed to Hastings...
Post by: Imperial Dave on Mar 21, 2026, 10:43 AM
Very interested to see any follow up to this.
Title: Re: Harold sailed to Hastings...
Post by: Nick Harbud on Mar 22, 2026, 02:03 PM
Beats waiting for an Uber....  :-\
Title: Re: Harold sailed to Hastings...
Post by: Mark G on Mar 22, 2026, 04:18 PM
Wouldn't the winds be a factor?
Anything that could get harald north would also get William across, and work against a trip back south again too, wouldn't it?
Title: Re: Harold sailed to Hastings...
Post by: Imperial Dave on Mar 22, 2026, 05:31 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2026/mar/21/battle-of-hastings-discovery-research-england-history

The Guardian's 2 penneth worth
Title: Re: Harold sailed to Hastings...
Post by: GavinP on Mar 22, 2026, 10:42 PM
Well given I don't believe the official narrative for the site to begin with, I'll add this claim to my skeptical list too.
Title: Re: Harold sailed to Hastings...
Post by: Imperial Dave on Mar 23, 2026, 06:13 AM
Intrigued...where is your money on re the site?
Title: Re: Harold sailed to Hastings...
Post by: Jim Webster on Mar 23, 2026, 08:03 AM
The idea that and Anglo-Danish king should use ships to move armies isn't really all that much of a surprise  ;)
Title: Re: Harold sailed to Hastings...
Post by: skb777 on Mar 23, 2026, 08:54 AM
Always wondered why he wouldn't have just sailed Haardrada's ships back from Stamford Bridge
Title: Re: Harold sailed to Hastings...
Post by: Erpingham on Mar 23, 2026, 09:23 AM
IIRC, the English fleet was at Tadcaster. It would be a short journey from York for the core of the army, hop on the ships and down to London. Drop off Harold and army at London, reprovision and off round the South coast. It's possible. But, as Mark has pointed out, the fleet is weather dependent and the North Sea in October isn't a millpond. I'm hopeful that in the full write up he will look at the weather. The winds delay the Normans for a long time, but do allow the Norwegians to cross. After Stamford Bridge, the weather is still good enough for the Norwegian survivors to sail home and, of course, provide a window of opportunity for William.
Another point of caution is that Medieval English armies tended not to sail from one part of England to another - they marched. Possibly because of the time it took to assemble the ships outweighed the slower march time, though Harold had a fleet in being.  Also, perhaps due to the unpredictability of the weather - even in England, the weather was rarely so bad it prevented overland travel.
Plenty of fun opportunities for speculation  :)
Title: Re: Harold sailed to Hastings...
Post by: DBS on Mar 23, 2026, 10:48 AM
Not discounting the theory, but a couple of points that would need addressing spring to mind.

The contemporary or near contemporary accounts emphasise the size of both Hardrada and William's fleets.  Now, it may be that these are exaggerated, but they were clearly of a size able to lift large armies.  If Harold was confronting reasonably large Norwegian and Norman armies with a reasonably sized opposig army, even allowing for possible remnants of Edwin and Morcar's northern forces at Stamford, and fresh southern levies at Hastings, it would still seem to demand a fairly large English fleet to transport Harold up and down the east coast.  One would also wonder how ANY Norwegian ships manage to get away after Stamford if a large English fleet was parked between them and the North Sea.

I also wonder about the argument of "home" being London.  This is not, as far as we understand, a standing fleet.  It is not like having an early modern fleet laid up, even if not in commission, in the Thames and Medway or Solent.  A sizeable fleet could undoubtedly be parked at London in the 11th century, but the lads still need to be fed; it is effectively "in commission".  If the fleet is disbanded, as received wisdom has taken it hitherto, then it will disperse to what one assumes are contributing ports; it is not entirely clear why Harold would have the fleet sitting in commission but tucked away at London. Provisioning a fleet for even a few days' sail up to the Ouse would be no mean act of logistics, even more so if it carrying a sizeable additional land force.  I accept that William may have feared an English naval descent on his fleet on the English coast, but that does not mean that Harold was able to organise such an attempt, or that it would have consisted of more than a raid; after all, the Godwin family had quite some experience in coastal raiding during their assorted contretemps with Edward the Confessor.

Quite agree with Anthony re winds and tides as well.  Marching might be slower, tedious and exhausting, but short of a blizzard you know that you are guaranteed to make progress every single day.

As I say, not dismissing Professor Licence's ideas out of hand.  But given the attention given by contemporaries to Harald and William's fleets, slightly odd that no mention of Harold's making an active contribution, other than the notion that the delay to William's crossing meant they had been "sent home"...
Title: Re: Harold sailed to Hastings...
Post by: stevenneate on Mar 23, 2026, 01:31 PM
I shall await the Prof's published evidence to see what is 'new' evidence as opposed to opinion, speculation, and perceived wisdom.

Maybe Harold used hoverboards? Their secret was lost after the Conquest.
Title: Re: Harold sailed to Hastings...
Post by: Erpingham on Mar 24, 2026, 11:11 AM
Some more coverage, including a few scholarly comments

https://www.medievalists.net/2026/03/did-king-harold-sail-to-hastings-new-study-sparks-debate-among-historians/
Title: Re: Harold sailed to Hastings...
Post by: Duncan Head on Mar 24, 2026, 11:28 AM
Marc Morris's rebuttal is interesting and seems well-considered:

http://www.marcmorris.org.uk/2026/03/did-king-harold-really-sail-to-battle.html
Title: Re: Harold sailed to Hastings...
Post by: Erpingham on Mar 24, 2026, 11:55 AM
Yes, I think that is a well-reasoned piece. As Marc Morris says, many of the things overturned by the new theory weren't current orthodoxy anyway. The big new idea is using the fleet to transport a whole army, whereas the current orthodoxy is a mounted core of huscarls (and perhaps other "select" forces) moving to the theatre of war and joining with local troops. It will be interesting to see, away from the press releases, a solid academic argument from Professor Licence to allow proper assessment to be made.
Title: Re: Harold sailed to Hastings...
Post by: DBS on Mar 24, 2026, 12:03 PM
So Marc Morris agrees with me. I have always liked him  ;D
Title: Re: Harold sailed to Hastings...
Post by: Imperial Dave on Mar 24, 2026, 01:27 PM
He's a good egg normally...