SoA Forum

History => Ancient and Medieval History => Topic started by: Imperial Dave on Oct 29, 2025, 06:34 AM

Title: Justinian and the silkworm heist
Post by: Imperial Dave on Oct 29, 2025, 06:34 AM
https://x.com/archeohistories/status/1981313876819169697

I blame Theodora
Title: Re: Justinian and the silkworm heist
Post by: Duncan Head on Oct 29, 2025, 12:33 PM
But the smugglers couldn't be punished under the Chinese Official Secrets Act because Byzantium was not formally designated as an enemy state.
Title: Re: Justinian and the silkworm heist
Post by: nikgaukroger on Oct 29, 2025, 01:09 PM
And China wasn't unified at the time either.
Title: Re: Justinian and the silkworm heist
Post by: Denis Grey on Oct 29, 2025, 02:06 PM
Silk moths have a life cycle of 6 to 8 weeks, so even if the monks were given eggs or very young larvae rather than adult moths, the ones that reached Byzantium would have been the descendants of the original stolen property. 

And what were they fed while they were in transit?  The modern silkworm only eats mulberry leaves, but possibly their 6th century forebearers had a less specialised diet.
Title: Re: Justinian and the silkworm heist
Post by: Duncan Head on Oct 29, 2025, 03:33 PM
Quote from: Denis Grey on Oct 29, 2025, 02:06 PMAnd what were they fed while they were in transit?  The modern silkworm only eats mulberry leaves, but possibly their 6th century forebearers had a less specialised diet.
The accounts of Procopius and Theophanes, on which the story is largely based (https://www.historians.org/resource/legendary-silk-heists/), do mention mulberry leaves, so presumably these were smuggled as well. Some species of mulberry are found in Greece (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morus_(plant)#Distribution), so the worms may just have had to adapt their diet slightly.
Title: Re: Justinian and the silkworm heist
Post by: Erpingham on Oct 29, 2025, 04:04 PM
IIRC correctly, you need to have the right sort of mulberry trees. The attempts to create an English silk worm programme in the 17th century were scuppered by the planting of the wrong type of mulberry (Black as opposed to White Mulberry).
Title: Re: Justinian and the silkworm heist
Post by: Jim Webster on Oct 29, 2025, 10:21 PM
I remember reading this in one of those children's history books that was probably published between the wars  ;)

Amazing how stuff keeps coming round
Title: Re: Justinian and the silkworm heist
Post by: Imperial Dave on Oct 30, 2025, 05:54 AM
Quote from: Erpingham on Oct 29, 2025, 04:04 PMIIRC correctly, you need to have the right sort of mulberry trees. The attempts to create an English silk worm programme in the 17th century were scuppered by the planting of the wrong type of mulberry (Black as opposed to White Mulberry).

Which of course is one possible explanation for the children's nursery rhyme 'here we go round the mulberry bush'  :)
Title: Re: Justinian and the silkworm heist
Post by: Nick Harbud on Oct 30, 2025, 11:45 AM
Well, according to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morus_(plant)#Silk_industry), the Romans cultivated mulberry specifically for silkworms as early as 220 AD.  Apparently the Elagabalus had a silk robe made from local silk.

According to the same sources, white mulberry can be found throughout Central Asia, Middle East, Southern Europe and North Africa.

Of course, silk farming may not have survived all the excitement around the Mediterranean during the 5th and 6th centuries.  Hence, the Byzantine need to source new silkworms to keep them in sartorial spendour they thought they deserved.

:P