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#41

Army Research / Re: Sardinians in the Second P...

Last post by Aetius-last-of-the-Romans - Mar 25, 2026, 04:39 PM

Musing about the 'Sardi-Pelliti' or the 'wild hillmen with their short swords, light shields and hide cuirasses. Not so much what they looked like but how they fought.

Possibly slightly off the edges of a true academic discussion - but there is (as I understand it) one train of thought that the mustachioed, paler skinned, horn-helmeted and cuirass wearing 'Sherden' swordsmen, that appear in New Kingdom Egyptian reliefs, either as part of the 'Sea People's migration or subsequently as elite Guardsmen in Egyptian armies might (and I stress might), have originated in Sardinia. There are similar small bronze votive figures of horn-helmeted, sword-wielding figures carrying large domed, animal hide, multi-bossed shields that have been found in Sardinia. The British Museum has a couple of nice examples on display.
Is it a possibility that the goat-skinned cuirasses could be similar to those depicted on the Egyptian reliefs (and maybe the shields)? Just a thought.

I also read somewhere (need to trawl my memory as to where) that the Balearic Isles, Corsica and Sardinia (also Lusitania) all produced a mostly black wool - maybe again from the aforementioned 'rams'. So maybe our Sardinian troops in the Punic Wars, would be dressed in black woolen (Iberian style) tunics, with round domed multi-bossed shields, a significantly sized sword, and a brace of javelin. With maybe some of them in a goat-skin cuirass - minus the hair - possibly like the ones the Egyptian Sherden are wearing (all purely hypothetically of course).

There is also a traditional Sardinian folk practice, particularly in Mamoiada, involving participants dressed in dark goat/sheep skins and large cowbells. This is the 'Mamuthones and Issohadores' parade during the annual carnival, usually held in January (around the time of the feast of St.Anthony). This ancient, mysterious ritual often involves 12 Mamuthones wearing black skins (mastruca) and black-masks, and 30kg of bells to represent animals or dark forces being tamed by the white-masked Issohadores, in white skins, with white masks. These practices are believed to have prehistoric (Nuragic) or Dionysian roots, designed as propitiatory rituals for agriculture and farming, a bit like the Celtic Beltane rites.

Cheers
Mark

#42

Army Research / Re: Sardinians in the Second P...

Last post by Jim Webster - Mar 24, 2026, 10:01 PM

But I've found damn all describing them in combat

I should be delighted to be proved wrong, but I fear there is nothing to be found.  Strabo is pretty much our only "early" extant source, and whilst he describes a warrior's kit, that is all.  Given by Strabo's time the island had supposedly been pacified for the best part of two centuries, I wonder if his description is at all contemporary; perhaps it was derived from earlier, lost, sources.  The problem is that Strabo is rarely interested in the mechanics of different ethnicities' combat, as opposed to their physical appearance and dress, and supposed ethnic origins, so even if he had a source describing their actual preferred style of combat, he might not have thought it worthy of repetition - bunch of blokes living in the hills fight like a lot of other blokes living in the hills...  not as interesting or unique as their liking for mouflon cuirasses...

Yes I tend to thinking of them as avoiding Gallic cliches 
(Actually I suspect a lot of Gallic infantry avoided them as well. With some of Caesar's accounts you begin to wonder if actually the Romans were the warband 

#43

Army Research / Re: Sardinians in the Second P...

Last post by Jim Webster - Mar 24, 2026, 09:59 PM

In DBx terms, more Auxilia that warband.

Who cares about DBx terms Jim, what matters is how to model them in Ionia to Carthage terms

Well more people know DBx but here goes

You cannot view this attachment.

The 'Gallic Sardi-Pelliti' are the ones who do the wild charge. The alternative are those who are more ordered and steady.
They are average equipment because of their fashionable mouflon cuirasses and shields etc. These are the top of the range, a fair proportion would be poor equipment. Depends how much kit their heroic allies can supply 

#44

Army Research / Re: Sardinians in the Second P...

Last post by DBS - Mar 24, 2026, 08:52 PM

But I've found damn all describing them in combat

I should be delighted to be proved wrong, but I fear there is nothing to be found.  Strabo is pretty much our only "early" extant source, and whilst he describes a warrior's kit, that is all.  Given by Strabo's time the island had supposedly been pacified for the best part of two centuries, I wonder if his description is at all contemporary; perhaps it was derived from earlier, lost, sources.  The problem is that Strabo is rarely interested in the mechanics of different ethnicities' combat, as opposed to their physical appearance and dress, and supposed ethnic origins, so even if he had a source describing their actual preferred style of combat, he might not have thought it worthy of repetition - bunch of blokes living in the hills fight like a lot of other blokes living in the hills...  not as interesting or unique as their liking for mouflon cuirasses...

#45

Army Research / Re: Sardinians in the Second P...

Last post by Dave Knight - Mar 24, 2026, 06:59 PM

In DBx terms, more Auxilia that warband.

Who cares about DBx terms Jim, what matters is how to model them in Ionia to Carthage terms

#46

Army Research / Re: Sardinians in the Second P...

Last post by Jim Webster - Mar 24, 2026, 04:27 PM

Musing about the 'Sardi-Pelliti' or the 'wild hillmen with their short swords, light shields and hide cuirasses. Not so much what they looked like but how they fought.
The tribes were divided into three main groups. Apparently the Corsican tribes (some of whom lived in Northern Sardinia) were of Ligurian ancestry. Further south the second group was known as the Balares whilst the third, southern group, were the Iliensi.
My current thought is that they'll be similar to Spanish in combat, as opposed to Gauls. In DBx terms, more Auxilia that warband.
But I've found damn all describing them in combat

#47

Battle Reports / Re: Teutonic Orders versus Est...

Last post by gavindbm - Mar 24, 2026, 03:54 PM

Yes, the Russians were important in both battles.  But the masses of warband were effective, too - numbers matter and the Estonian army had 119 elements to the Teutonics' 74.  In the second game especially, I thought the Teutonic players should have concentrated rather than trying to cover the full width of the field (I wasn't playing, only providing the armies, umpiring and criticising).

Agree about numbers - and it did seem like the small quality army was too spread out (so enabling the large army to apply its mass).  The vulnerable bits were not hiding behind the tough bits.

#48

Ancient and Medieval History / Re: Harold sailed to Hastings....

Last post by Imperial Dave - Mar 24, 2026, 01:27 PM

He's a good egg normally...

#49

Ancient and Medieval History / Re: Harold sailed to Hastings....

Last post by DBS - Mar 24, 2026, 12:03 PM

So Marc Morris agrees with me. I have always liked him 

#50

Ancient and Medieval History / Re: Harold sailed to Hastings....

Last post by Erpingham - Mar 24, 2026, 11:55 AM

Yes, I think that is a well-reasoned piece. As Marc Morris says, many of the things overturned by the new theory weren't current orthodoxy anyway. The big new idea is using the fleet to transport a whole army, whereas the current orthodoxy is a mounted core of huscarls (and perhaps other "select" forces) moving to the theatre of war and joining with local troops. It will be interesting to see, away from the press releases, a solid academic argument from Professor Licence to allow proper assessment to be made.